Overcoming Objections in Real Estate
Nazar Kalayji [00:00:00]:
We’ve got Tom Toole in the house here, all the way from Philly. For those that don’t know Tom, he has branded himself as a very smart individual that runs an amazing team. He’s a smart ass and he really enjoys making calls and has gotten really good at negotiating and really good at overcoming objections when he’s talking to people. So super excited. Have him on here and I guess we’ll give the time over to him. So, Tom, take it away.
Tom Toole [00:00:36]:
Sure. Well, grateful to be here in Nazar, first and foremost. In all seriousness, Czar is a good friend of mine. Obviously, Rob Mack is as well. And I think I’ve known you for what, like 1011 years now? Something like that. It’s been a long time and grateful to contribute anytime, especially in the current climate here, where there’s a lot to think about, right. And there’s going to be actually new objections. You get that we’re working on with our team.
Tom Toole [00:01:00]:
So Nazar and Rob asked me to come on and talk about objection handling. So what I want to do, and I’m happy to handle some or see what’s going on with the audience, I think that’d be pretty helpful. I want to give you some basics about objection handling, because a lot of people think it’s like you have these magic words that you say and it gets people to do whatever you want. It’s like a Jedi mind trick. Like, there’s no droids here. One of those deals, that’s not how it works. Objection handling is about empathy. It’s about understanding that it’s not an objection.
Tom Toole [00:01:33]:
An objection is like a gift, right? And what I mean by a gift is that anytime someone starts to say things like, I’ve got a friend, or will you cut your commission or whatever it’s going to be, you know what that means? They’re thinking about hiring you and they’ve got some questions. That’s what an objection is. So when you hear that, my initial thing was like, oh, these people are going to be difficult, they’re going to be problems. That’s not it at all. It’s that they have a question about doing business. And remember, most consumers don’t transact. The average homeowner moves every eleven to 13 years now, right? So think about what the world was like 13 years ago, back in 2010. It’s a very different place, right? I mean, even if it was 2012, like, what’s the difference? So there’s a lot of things that have changed and people have questions.
Tom Toole [00:02:19]:
So that’s some of the basics. With objection handling. And I’m going to give you kind of twelve points here. You probably want to write these down and then we can get into some objection handling and you clear there’s a formula you want to follow, at least in your head, to get through these things so you can get people to work with you. I mean, that’s the goal here. But you got to come from the mindset of help that you’re really trying to help them. So the first rule is you always want to bring agreement, right? Imagine if I got on here and I started arguing with Nazar right away. Probably just turn off the zoom and that would be the end of it.
Tom Toole [00:02:49]:
Imagine when anyone here and show of hands, I can see most of you guys, you’ve had a sales experience and someone got a little abrasive with you, they got a little aggressive or they kind of rubbed you the wrong way because they weren’t trying to bring agreement. They were like arguing with you. Right? I’m not working with someone that’s going to argue with me. I mean, especially when you’re in a large financial transaction like real estate. So that’s number one. And the second is that, like I said, objections are a gift. This is not a negative. The prospect is telling you I may want to do business with you or I do want to conduct business with you.
Tom Toole [00:03:24]:
However, I’ve got some concerns and questions that need to be answered. Look at the objection as a gift. It’s something amazing. It’s like a beautiful thing because when you hear that, it’s like, hey, so can we do a shorter term contract or will you rebate some of your commission or whatever it is to me, I get excited when I hear that because now I know they’re at least considering working with me and I’ve got to navigate this. And it might be a negotIation. Right? Well, that’s what we’re paid to do. We have to negotiate for them. But when you’re acquiring a client, you’ve got to negotiate against the client to get them on your terms.
Tom Toole [00:03:53]:
So that’s a little bit of a different mindset there. It’s not a big deal. It’s just a question or a concern. And think about we’re very jaded going into these real estate transactions. Moving is one of the top three most stressful things people go through behind death of a spouse and divorce. Right. Moving sucks. Who’s moved recently? It’s horrible.
Tom Toole [00:04:14]:
You got to coordinate the movers. You got to make sure the contractors are going to show up on time. You don’t know where anything is. So you got to really be empathetic there. The third rule is that all these things I’m going to share with you, they’re just words you need to learn. It’s nothing more than that. And it’s how to deliver them, because you could say something the same way I might give as an example here, but if your tonality and body language don’t match, you might come off like an mean. You really got to think about this.
Tom Toole [00:04:42]:
Nazar’s laughing. This is true. Right. So one of the things that, I don’t know if you guys get this a lot, but hey, can I talk to the listing agent on like an inbound buyer lead? Very common objection. Right? And if you. One of the things I’ve always said is like, hey, so can I tell you why that makes me nervous? Anytime you call the listing agent, it’s like calling your husband or wife’s divorce attorney. Do you really want that person representing you in a large financial transaction? But there’s a very intentional tonality. How I dropped my voice there and was empathetic instead of, hey, you don’t want to call that person.
Tom Toole [00:05:11]:
That’s like calling your wife’s divorce attorney. I mean, just see how the difference there is. It’s how to deliver it, not only what to say. The fourth rule is that objection handlers are simple. There’s only like ten to twelve objections, tops. That’s it. There’s not all these different objections that come up and the more you learn them, just like a sales script or anything else, the better off you’re going to be. But there’s not an infinite amount that you got to learn.
Tom Toole [00:05:35]:
There’s only maybe ten to twelve objections. And when you master them, it’s like muscle memory, right? If there’s any athletes on the call here, when you get muscle memory and you see the ball coming to you and you know exactly how to catch it and what to do with your left hand or right hand or whatever, that’s what you want these to become. So there’s not thousands of them to learn. The fifth one is get out of judgment and into curiosity. Don’t jump to conclusions because the objection should not set you off that it’s, hey, this person’s horrible. This person’s going to be difficult. People have questions when they’re buying big financial properties. I mean, you’re selling million dollar homes, $500,000 homes, whatever, it’s a lot of money to them.
Tom Toole [00:06:17]:
And when you, instead of get out of judgment and think, man, this person’s going to immediately be a pain in the ass because they asked me three questions about a home purchase or three questions about their listing. No, it’s, hey, let’s answer the questions and let’s make them feel good about the answers because most people don’t know. We’ve all dealt with people that are massively intelligent individuals in their own field on the consumer side. They don’t know anything about real estate. They have no idea. And it was up to them to do things their way. It probably would not go well for them. So you’re going to get out of judgment and into curiosity.
Tom Toole [00:06:46]:
The 6th rule is to listen more effectively. Most salespeople, they talk way too much. I mean, I’m talking way too much. You should think about like the 2080 rule where you talk 20% of the time, the salespeople talk or the consumer, not the salesperson, talks 80% of the time. And it should be about asking the right questions. Asking the right questions. Whoever does the most question asking in a conversation, they control the conversation. We’ve heard this before from Phil JOnes.
Tom Toole [00:07:13]:
So when you have your scripts down, you can actually listen to what people are saying. And they may say things like, hey, no matter what happens, and I’m meeting you on Friday, don’t pull out a contract because I’m not hiring you. I need to talk to my attorney. And then you pull the contract out on Friday, you might have just lost the piece of business. Right? You’ve really got to pay attention to these things. It’s not saying don’t close them or don’t maybe get them into agreement, but they said don’t do this. So why don’t you listen to them? Because again, they’re hiring you to be their guide and their advisor. You don’t want to do the exact opposite of what they tell you.
Tom Toole [00:07:42]:
Number seven. And I’m going to go seven and eight together here. You want to learn to lower the volume of your voice and speak softly. In the right situations, volume is going to matter. If you’re familiar with mirroring and matching, you get someone know Nazar came on. He’s got a nice light tone here, right? If I’m talking to him on the phone, I’m not going to be like raising the volume of my voice and shouting at him on the phone because that’s going to turn him off. I mean, that’s just how it is. And you also need to slow down a little bit.
Tom Toole [00:08:08]:
Some of us talk way too fast. I mean, I’m from the Northeast so I tend to talk a lot faster than most people, as you can identify here. But when I go to California, I got to slow the F down. I got to realize I’m on a different time period than other people are. And you want to mirror that because people are going to feel comfortable if you’re speaking in the same volume and the same pace as they are, it’s going to make them feel much more at ease working with you. This just happened to myself and Sarah from our team. Last night on a listing appointment, we met with this woman. She’s got to be in her late 70s, early 80s, totally overwhelmed with the selling process.
Tom Toole [00:08:44]:
She’s met with a number of agents and I was finally able to get in there. And instead of telling her how aggressive we can be and how we can help her sell the home, we listened to her, we heard her concerns, and there was a lot of them, like cleaning out the house, getting closer to her kids. But most importantly, we dialed our tone back and took a little more passive approach because she was very soft spoken. And if I was shouting at her at the table, that’s not going to make people feel comfortable. So you really want to learn to adjust the volume of your voice and the pace. Number nine. I had a hard time with this one. I think Robert Mack was in the room when I got called out on this at a Tom Ferry event.
Tom Toole [00:09:18]:
I don’t smile enough. Right. So you want to smile when you’re talking to these people because that comes through when you’re on the phone. If you got a sour puss on your face and you got bad body language, people are going to pick that up, especially in person. But it also comes through in how you’re talking because what people actually hear, the words are very little. The words are maybe 15% to 17% of what people actually hear. They hear your tonality and your body language. And body language is by far the most.
Tom Toole [00:09:49]:
It’s over 50%. So if you’re not smiling, right, there’s a big difference. If I’m walking around like this and I got my arms crossed and I’m talking to you on the phone, you can kind of hear it, right. But when you’re smiling someone and say, hey, Nazar, super excited to be here. I’m really grateful for the opportunity to help you guys here. There’s a difference in how it comes through. It’s no different than when you’re standing up versus being slouched over on prospecting calls. It’s the same thing.
Tom Toole [00:10:13]:
So that’s number nine, you want to make sure you smile and embrace body language. Number ten, this one’s really important because real estate agents tend to talk around things. In some cases, you want to answer the question, right? You want to answer the question being asked, because if you don’t, someone says, hey, what’s your fee? Over the phone? You got to give them an answer. It’s not, hey, I’ll go over it when we meet with you because that’s going to immediately break any trust you’ve built on these calls, on these conversations that you’re having with people that are out there trying to sell their largest asset. Even if it’s not the right answer, you can level shift it. There’s some techniques to do that. So a common one is, hey, how many homes have you sold in my neighborhood? And you haven’t sold any, right? This has happened to me before. I don’t know if it’s happened to anybody else and you want to answer them, hey, we haven’t sold any in this neighborhood, and we sold three right in the next community over and four about a half mile away that were all very similar.
Tom Toole [00:11:04]:
And three of these were people who tried selling on their own and weren’t able to, just like you are. So you’re answering the question, but then you’re diverting the answer to what’s most important. Nobody wants an agent that’s going to be dishonest with them or dance around things right off the first piece of communication. Right. Trust is really important here. And if you smile and relax and just be aware that it’s going to be the same objections that come up over and over, you can answer those questions in an effective way. And then the last two points here, persistence. Right.
Tom Toole [00:11:37]:
I cannot stress this enough. Sometimes you got to ask for the appointment three, four, five times on a call. I know. It’s worked for me. I’m sure it’s worked for Nazar and some of the other people on the call here. There’s no disadvantage to stopping when you ask for the appointment. Some people get really nervous about this. Has anyone gotten nervous about asking for an appointment besides me? So I see a couple of hands.
Tom Toole [00:11:59]:
Good. Everyone else is lying because it’s definitely normal. So when you ask for the appointment, you really want to ask yourself three things when you’re about to say something you feel a little uncomfortable with. One, what’s the best thing that can happen? Two, what’s the worst thing that can happen? And three, what’s the likely outcome? And you can even use that with Your clients. That’s something where they’re afraid to make an offer. You can use that same line of questioning. The best thing that happens is they set an appointment. The worst thing that happens is that they don’t.
Tom Toole [00:12:28]:
But you’re already at the no appointment. If you don’t ask, the likely outcome might be like a 50 50 shot. So even if they say no, right, you’re still in the same position you were in when you started. And the only no that really counts is the last one when you decide to give up. We know that in sales all the conversion happens at six plus attempts, so you don’t want to give up after one or two. The average real estate agent follows up 2.7 times, according to the National association of Realtors. So that’s going to be one of those things where the more persistent you are, the better off you’re going to be. This appointment I was on last night, I called the person 37 times.
Tom Toole [00:13:02]:
I didn’t take no for an answer. And now we’re. And it’s going to be a million dollar listing, which around us that’s like a big deal. I know some of you guys are in California, that’s chump change. But we’re on like the quarter million dollar listing show here. And then the last one is, if you decide today to invest in yourself and actually implement the training that I’m going to give you, you’re going to be unstoppable, especially in the current market, because skills have eroded in 2023. People have stopped and kind of got lazy with, and our team certainly been guilty of it, and we’ve made a lot of changes as a result. They got lazy with the basics.
Tom Toole [00:13:38]:
Right? And I shouldn’t say the basics because the basics for most real estate agents is deciding where you’re going to get lunch after you didn’t make phone calls in the morning. This is advanced stuff where you’re making calls and doing these things. But it’s a basic business principle, right. For people that are successful, we can call it a basic. And if you really invest in yourself and you get like a role play partner and you’re going to work on these objections on a weekly basis and pick one and just drill it and understand it, you’re going to be such a better agent because there’s more and more of these things coming up every single day. It’s not the door opener era that we were in the past couple of years. Buyers and sellers are interviewing agents right now consistently. And we still know that most people hire the first person they meet with it’s 70 plus percent according to NAR.
Tom Toole [00:14:19]:
But now they got more questions because the market’s not this white hot unicorn market. People are wondering what’s going on with rates, what’s the Fed going to do? Are prices going to go down? What’s happening with inventory? These are all questions that if you can answer them and you can answer them effectively, you’re going to increase the likelihood you get hired. So those are kind of the twelve rules of objection handling. Anyone got any questions? And then I’m happy just to field objections here in Azar if you want, and I’ll give you the formula before we do that, but I want to see if there’s any questions because I know I went over a bunch of stuff there. I can’t see the chat from where I am either. So we’re in our studio.
Nazar Kalayji [00:15:00]:
You put in the chat, I can read it.
Tom Toole [00:15:03]:
Nazar Kalayji [00:15:03]:
Do you want to unmute yourself? You can ask.
Tom Toole [00:15:06]:
Yeah. All right, so we answered all the questions. Fantastic. I’ll see you guys later. This is a great out now. I’m kidding.
Rochelle Young [00:15:16]:
Tom Toole [00:15:17]:
Good, bring it up. What do you got?
Rochelle Young [00:15:19]:
I don’t know if this happens to any other agents, but you talk about asking a lot of questions. How many questions should you ask? I feel like in my time when I talk to clients, I’m asking questions and then I forget my train of thought. Like I get so deep into asking the question that I don’t get back to getting to the objection. Does that make sense? I just kind of get lost.
Tom Toole [00:15:45]:
I hear you. Yeah, and you might not get an objection, by the way, if you don’t get an objection, you’ve done a nice job, so don’t feel like you should be waiting for some objection, like it may not happen. Right. There’s two answers to this, on the purchase side and on the sell side. And anyone, feel free to chime in. I’ll just tell you what my view of this is. So on the buy side, it’s easy. You want to think LP Mama, right? Location, price, motivation, approval, mortgage appointment.
Tom Toole [00:16:14]:
Right? Like that’s the stuff you want to ask. I have a little different view of LP Mama. I always want to make sure we’re asking for the appointment, but you really want to get to the motivation with these people. That’s probably the most important thing in any single client conversation because buyers and sellers that transact usually have a motivation to do it. So a great way to ask that question. And I didn’t catch your name here. I can’t see the screen from where I’m standing. Just tell me what you’re looking for in a property.
Tom Toole [00:16:45]:
Let’s use the buy side as an example and I’ll show you how to get to motivation.
Rochelle Young [00:16:50]:
I’m looking for like a four bedroom, three bath single story home.
Tom Toole [00:16:55]:
Great. So what’s important to you about finding that single story home?
Rochelle Young [00:17:01]:
Right now I want to come out of the two story home that I’m in and just really liking the layout and design the space in a single story and just needing also enough room for maybe a kid that may come home and parents that visit often.
Tom Toole [00:17:20]:
Got it. So it sounds like you want to make sure you have some room for some family that doesn’t live with you so they can come visit. Getting a little more workable floor plan. So what’s getting into that one story property going to do for you?
Rochelle Young [00:17:35]:
Actually, it would just make things easier. Like I said, for my parents who don’t go up and down the stairs easily. And I’m getting up there in age a little bit too. So just those type of things is what I’m looking for for the future coming.
Tom Toole [00:17:53]:
Perfect. Totally makes sense. I can see why that would really be a benefit to you there. So those two questions, what’s important to you about what they’re looking for? And then if they don’t really give it to you, and you were a little evasive. This is actually perfect. So you told me you want a one story. One would assume that it’s like a health issue or it’s going to be easier not having to deal with stairs. But that second question, hey, so what’s that going to do for you getting into that one story home? It sounds like you’re planning for the future and don’t want to get into something where you have to deal with a lot of steps and all that.
Tom Toole [00:18:21]:
And it’s going to be easier for your parents, who I assume would be older. So now you kind of know what the motivation is, but you want to think LP Mama, right? And then if you can get to the motivation for anybody, that’s going to be helpful. So that’s on the buy side. Now, to answer your question on the sell side, the most important question to ask any sort of seller is where are you planning on moving to once the home sells? Because if they don’t have a plan of where they’re moving to, you either got to help them with that or they might not be that motivated. And this is my view of this. I learned this on one of the very first listing appointments. I went on. I didn’t ask any of these questions.
Tom Toole [00:18:54]:
I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about, had no idea where they were moving to, and couldn’t approach the appointment effectively. So you want to know where they’re going. And then there’s all kinds of scripts, how you pre qualify people in terms of what they think their home’s worth, how much they own the property. Are they interviewing other agents? To me, it’s one question. The most important question to find out from a seller is where they’re planning on moving to and the reason behind it. What’s important to them about making that move? Because in a market like this, and, Nazar, I’d love your feedback on this, because I know you’ve been selling real estate a very long time as well. You got to find motivated clients, because there’s a lot of people that can waste your time, and if you don’t know their motivation, they might not be that motivated. Right.
Tom Toole [00:19:35]:
And in a market where transactions are down and there’s uncertainty, there’s still 10,000 homes selling a day. I want to work with the people that I know are going to transact and at least have a strong reason to do that. That’s probably going to help you a lot. Does that answer your question?
Rochelle Young [00:19:51]:
Yeah. Thank you.
Tom Toole [00:19:52]:
Awesome. Very cool.
Rochelle Young [00:19:53]:
I have a question.
Tom Toole [00:19:55]:
Wait on me.
Rochelle Young [00:19:57]:
So you’re saying that they need to know exactly where it is that they’re going to move, but what if they don’t know? Like, I have a husband and wife couple. The wife is ready to go. He says that he’s ready to go because he’s tired of the commute, but then he doesn’t really know, am really serious about moving. They’ve almost paid the house off, and he works in the Orange county area. So I’ve been looking and sending places, like near, closer to the Orange county area, but still kind of in Corona, the very outskirts of Corona, because her mom still lives here, so she wants to be away, but not too far away. So how would you handle that where you have one person who’s ready and the other person who doesn’t. Who really doesn’t even want to talk to you.
Tom Toole [00:20:40]:
So the good news is that the wife’s ready, because nine times out of ten, the wife’s a decision maker. I’m a married man. That’s just how it goes. I think that’s working on your side. Sometimes people don’t know exactly where they’re moving to, but they know where they want to get to. I’m glad you asked this question, because I want to clarify that some people are saying, hey, I’m moving to North Carolina, but I’m not going to buy anything until I sell my house. And I’m okay going into a. That’s still, they know where they’re going.
Tom Toole [00:21:07]:
As an example, when the spouses don’t agree, that’s a little bit of a tough situation. Because has anyone else ever dealt with this? Where the husband wants to move, the wife doesn’t. Vice versa. It can be a challenge. One, because you need them both to sign off on everything, and two, there’s probably some tension going on in their relationship behind the scenes, right? So that’s not so much an objection as a condition, and there’s a big difference there. A condition is something you can’t change. So I would talk to these folks when you meet them and say, hey, so I know you’ve been back and forth a little bit about what you want to do. Have you had any change in your plans or your goals or tell me where you want to go from here if you feel like you’re running up against a brick wall, because, and you know what, some people take longer to transact, and you might need to embrace that.
Tom Toole [00:21:55]:
We’re very spoiled right now as real estate agents coming out of the 2020 to 2022 market, where people were just moving left and right. I mean, I’ve had clients, literally, I first talked to the guy in 2017, and we’re finally getting ready to move. And I didn’t go out and show them properties, but I mean, it takes people time to move because moving is tough. And when you have that empathy, then the objection handling becomes a lot easier. But you might want to just ask them, like, hey, so where are you guys at? Not maybe in that way I would be a little more professional. But hey, so tell me how your search is evolving. Is Corona still where you want to be? Have you had any other thoughts about areas you might want to consider? I don’t know California that well, so, I mean, you can get some guidance there from, obviously, your own knowledge of the market. But ask more questions and see what’s going on, because if they’re not going to agree, you’re going to have a tough time.
Tom Toole [00:22:47]:
And that might be a condition. Like they might need to figure some shit out between the two of them before they really pull the trigger.
Rochelle Young [00:22:54]:
Tom Toole [00:22:55]:
You got it.
Nazar Kalayji [00:22:58]:
So, Tom, maybe we discuss some of the objections that are more relevant to today.
Tom Toole [00:23:04]:
Yes. All right, I got a bunch from here for you.
Nazar Kalayji [00:23:07]:
Yeah. So if you want to do one of those, like, hey, rates, not sure. Going to wait on the sidelines, those types of objections.
Tom Toole [00:23:15]:
So here’s the most common objections we’re hearing. Rates are too high. I want to wait for the market to get better. Right. We’ve started hearing, hey, what’s going on with this commission lawsuit? This happened in real life at appointments. So to me, tHose. I mean, it’s rates or more inventory. That’s the other one.
Tom Toole [00:23:33]:
We hear a lot of. We want to wait for more homes to come to the market. So I’ll kind of hit on each of these. Nazar, I’ll send you this. It’s on my laptop here. We do this every two weeks at our team. We kind of support it with, like, charts and graphs. I don’t know if you guys have ever tried doing anything like that, but we take some actual third party validations to back up the stats that we’re working on.
Tom Toole [00:23:51]:
So I’ll email this to you so you can kind of share it with everyone on the call here. And before we get into that, there is a formula here, and I’m going to give you the three pronged formula. It’s very easy. You want to acknowledge the objection. That’s number one, right? So, hey, I’m so glad you brought that up, Nazar. Or, hey, that’s a really valid concern. Or I hear you. It creates some sort of agreement, because these objections are founded in how they’re feeling.
Tom Toole [00:24:14]:
Whether you think it’s real or not, you want to let them know. It kind of lets you know they’re on their side. Right. It lets them know you’re on their side. So that’s step one is acknowledge it and agree. Step two is you actually go in and handle the objection. So let’s use it for rates as an example. Right? Hey, I want to wait until rates come down.
Tom Toole [00:24:32]:
Hey, totally get it. Rates are higher than they’ve been in a couple of years. So can I tell you why it makes me nervous that you want to wait for rates to come down? People are usually going to say yes to that, right? Because you’re asking, hey, can I tell you why it makes me nervous? And if it’s on the buy side, as an example. So I get you want rates to come down. There’s probably a lot of other buyers waiting for rates to come down, too. And what we’ve seen so far in the fourth quarter here is that we’ve seen inventory in our markets up 18.5% from where it was last year. We’ve seen rates come down from that peak, peak number of eight down into the seven and an 8th range. And we’ve seen 39% of sellers across the country make price adjustments during the month of November.
Tom Toole [00:25:11]:
So we’re seeing that sellers are more negotiable. Rates have come down a little bit, not down to where they were, and we’ve seen that there’s more homes available. So if rates come down further, you’re going to see a lot more buyers jump back into the market, and there’s going to be more competition when you go bid on these properties. So tell me what monthly payment you feel comfortable with, and we can target homes that way. And if you ask it like that, right, it’s less about the rate and more about what they can actually afford. It takes the rate conversation almost out of it. I don’t know what you guys thought of that, but that’s something we’ve been working on a lot here.
Nazar Kalayji [00:25:44]:
But Tom, if when rates go down, then more sellers will put their homes on the market, and so I’ll have more opportunity to find the home that I’m looking for, because inventory is low as it is anyway.
Tom Toole [00:25:56]:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. So, Nazar, here’s what I know is that rate projections, I got three of them here right in front of me. Fannie Mae is projecting that rates won’t go any lower than 6.7% for all of 2024. The Mortgage Bankers association, they’re a little more bullish. They’re predicting 6.8% the first quarter, 6.1% by the end of the year, and Goldman Sachs is at 7.3% for the first quarter and 6.8% by the end of the year. So I don’t know how much that’s going to make a difference where we’ve got 90% of sellers have a 6% or less rate on their home right now and throughout the entire us. So sure, there’s going to be more inventory at some point, but how much more would rates come down? I mean, you’re only really talking about maybe a quarter to a half a point at most. And if everyone’s thinking like you do, do you want to be biding against ten people, or maybe only one or two, or maybe nobody?
Nazar Kalayji [00:26:48]:
Well, I’ve heard that rates are going to go down to the fives and next year.
Tom Toole [00:26:52]:
That’d be awesome. I’d love to see that happen. So tell me what you understand about the rate climate right now.
Nazar Kalayji [00:26:58]:
Again, I knew some smart guys and that’s what they’ve told me. So I realize that if it gets to that, then I’ll be able to afford more. Like you’re saying, it just doesn’t make any sense to do it now.
Tom Toole [00:27:10]:
Sure. So what’s your backup plan if you decide not to move?
Nazar Kalayji [00:27:13]:
Just stay put.
Tom Toole [00:27:16]:
Tell me again what’s important to you about making a move in the first place.
Nazar Kalayji [00:27:19]:
I just wanted to downsize. The house is getting too big. But we’ve been here for a while. We can continue staying if we need to.
Tom Toole [00:27:27]:
So you want to downsize. And here’s the good news, is that for someone that’s looking to downsize, right, we’re still seeing a lot of demand out there right now. So part of this is going to be cashing out high on your current home. And we’re not expected to see the same appreciation that we’ve seen the past three years. So I don’t know if you’ve seen these stats, but Zillow put out there that home values went up 49% since the beginning of the pandemic, which is pretty incredible. The predictions from the Home Price Expectation Survey, which is a survey of 100 plus economists across the country, they’re only predicting 2% appreciation over the next year. So if rates come down and you’re selling and buying, and really we got to figure out what’s best for Unizar. That’s my main focus here.
Tom Toole [00:28:09]:
If rates do come down, more sellers put their home on the market. Well, you might have more competition selling your home because right now days on market is still less than where it was pre pandemic. So do we want to cash out high and maybe renegotiate the rate once you find the home? Because you’re locked in at the purchase price, you’re not locked in at the rate. And I’m getting a little nervous that we’re trying to time the market here. And usually when you try to time the market, it doesn’t work out. Well.
Nazar Kalayji [00:28:34]:
Well, yeah, I hear you. I don’t want to take that risk. I don’t want to sell my house and lose the 3% interest rate that I have currently and then get into something. I just needed to wait a little bit for it to come down.
Tom Toole [00:28:48]:
Sure. Well, we might be waiting a while. And that’s the challenge. No one knows what’s going to happen because all these people that made predictions last year, did you see how wildly wrong they were in 2022 and 2023 about rates? A lot of people thought rates were going to be in the high sixes by now, or maybe the fives, and we were at eight just a couple of weeks ago. So predictions are just that. They’re predictions, ideal in known quantities to give you the best advice. So we got a couple of options. Options.
Tom Toole [00:29:14]:
One is we can wait and see what happens. And that might not work out well. It might work out great. We don’t know that. The second option is we can take advantage of the less competition for buyers right now as well as less competition for sellers, even though demand is still very strong, like I talked about, and that might get you a better price on the home that you’re buying. And it might because of the kind of property that you have. There’s not that much competition out there. We’re still in a great spot to try to balance both of these things here.
Tom Toole [00:29:38]:
And anyone looking to sell a home right now or buy a home, you’re in an interesting spot because the people out there are very motivated. So like I said, almost 40% of sellers made a price adjustment on their homes in the month of November. That tells me these sellers are ready to sell. So if we can find that same situation where we fit it all in, in terms of what you want in a home, the right monthly payment and getting a place you feel good about, what’s stopping you from moving ahead?
Nazar Kalayji [00:30:05]:
I guess just all the uncertainty that’s out there.
Tom Toole [00:30:09]:
So did you feel really certain about the market in 2019 or 2020?
Nazar Kalayji [00:30:13]:
No, it was crazy.
Tom Toole [00:30:14]:
Yeah. We’re going to see more of the same based on all this. So we’ve got a lot of options in front of us. It’s really going to be what’s best for you and your family. So I know you said you want to wait for the market to improve, so what kind of improvement are you expecting?
Nazar Kalayji [00:30:32]:
If rates go down to at least in the sixes, I think it makes sense to make that move. We want to not only downsize, but we want to get closer to our grandkids. And so we’d like to do as soon as we possibly can.
Tom Toole [00:30:48]:
And the grandkids are only going to be getting older. I got three kids and my son just turned eleven. I’m having a little bit of a midlife cris, so I hear you. Like, all of a sudden he’s got a phone, he’s doing all these different things. So do you want to get closer to your grandkids sooner or do you want to maybe try to time the market and maybe lose some of those years? You could be a little closer to them.
Nazar Kalayji [00:31:05]:
Yeah, I do like to be there tomorrow. But I got to also make it to where it makes sense financially.
Tom Toole [00:31:12]:
Yeah, well, so why don’t we do this? I mean, I’m not sure if this will be for you, but why don’t we just sit down and have a planning meeting and say, all right, here’s option A. Here’s option B, here’s option. And just see what makes the most sense for you and your wife and your kids and your grandkids and everybody else, and we’ll present all the options, and then we can at least look at properties, and if we see the right fit, we can move on. And if not, that’s cool, too. I’m here to be your guy no matter what happens over the next two to three years.
Nazar Kalayji [00:31:35]:
Yeah, that sounds good. That’d be worthwhile doing.
Tom Toole [00:31:39]:
I got him. This guy was tough, man. I wish you should come role play with our team. That’s a real role play. What’d you think of that, Nazar? How’d I do?
Nazar Kalayji [00:31:45]:
You did good. I was waiting for you to ask me more questions about my motivation. And I think that at the end of the day, sometimes we get caught up in the first objection that they give us. But we realize the first objection they give us is you just throw something against the wall to see if it sticks. It’s kind of like blowing us off, but if we really dive in a little bit deeper, realize that there’s actually a lot more. They might be a lot more serious than they’re putting out there because they don’t want to show off all their cards to you.
Tom Toole [00:32:16]:
Nazar Kalayji [00:32:16]:
Because if they tell you how super motivated they are, then you’re going to jump on that. I think going a little bit deeper, asking subsequent additional questions. I think a lot of agents have a hard time. They just stay very surface level, and if you go deeper and deeper and deeper, then you get to really the root of. And then you find out if they’re really motivated, if they’re just kind of kicking the tire.
Tom Toole [00:32:40]:
This is a tough role play. This is not planned. By the way, my prep work was calling Robert Mack and saying, what do you guys want me to talk about today? And I knew it was objections, so that was good, man. I thought that was. Does anyone feel like that’s a realistic conversation right now on here? I mean, to me, you hit the nail on the head. And when you get to the motivation, if he’s saying, I’m sitting here not moving, no matter what, maybe he’s not that motivated. And that was the first question I fielded. You’ve got to find motivated people right now.
Tom Toole [00:33:05]:
And in a shifting market, motivation matters more than anything else.
Nazar Kalayji [00:33:08]:
Yeah, we talked about this the other day. We’re like, if you really figure out that in this market the people that are moving are the have to movers, not the. It would be kind of cool. The kind of cool they’re going to sit on the sidelines. And so our goal is to find the. I have to. Because of. And then those reasons.
Nazar Kalayji [00:33:26]:
Right. That you can isolate for sure.
Tom Toole [00:33:29]:
And let me give just two anecdotal examples here. So I’ve been on two listing appointments this week. I’m taking my team on them and training them and showing them how we do it. One has a job relocation coming up and they have a 3% rate. And this home is immaculate. It’s like 6500 sqft. They got three kids. It’s beautiful.
Tom Toole [00:33:45]:
But they both have an hour plus commute. So they’re like, you know what, they have a newborn, by the way. The woman’s there like trying to get the kid to sleep at the appointment that hour commute. People will pay a premium to avoid that. And that’s a great example of what you’re talking about. And they were like, hey, we know where it is. But the guy kept saying, we can’t control the rates, we can’t control where we live and our commute. And that’s going to be important to us.
Tom Toole [00:34:06]:
And they’re both physicians. They got some income to work with there. It makes it a little easier. And the appointment last night, the woman’s in this house she’s been in 45 years, her husband passed away and she wants to move out to California to get closer to her. And the home isn’t like, it’s fine now, but if she lets it go anymore, I mean, it smelled like cat piss when we walked in there. It was one of those places, but it could be great and just chilling out a little bit. And we interviewed against a couple agents for that one. We got a verbal yes, we have to talk with the kids and our attorney.
Tom Toole [00:34:37]:
It was just about literally calming down. Like, I really adjusted my tonality and everything else and just tried to help her and she was like, who do I get to clean out my house? That’s real life right now. And if you can do those sort of things, the objection handling is great, but it’s really about how you make the people feel and building trust with them more than anything else.
Nazar Kalayji [00:34:56]:
Rochelle Young [00:34:57]:
Nazar Kalayji [00:34:57]:
I mean, you can come off as the best. All the words to say and how to deliver it and all those things. But if people feel like you’re an ahole at the end of the day, they’re not going to want to work with you.
Tom Toole [00:35:09]:
I got to hide my inner ahole to make sure that works well. But Nazar is absolutely right. Trust is going to matter more than ever. The fact that all you guys are on this call here, this to me is you’re going to be able to take a lot of market Share in 2024 because there’s so many agents that are just used to doing, hey, well, they’re going to reach out to me when they’re interested or I don’t want handle that question and this mindset of dealing with the public. I got a news flash for everyone here. You’re not going to like all the clients you deal with. It’s 2024, right? I mean, you’re going to have to work with all sorts of people. And if you can roll with it and provide value and try to help them, at the end of the day, you’re going to win more business than you lose.
Tom Toole [00:35:45]:
And that’s how you build a big business in today’s world. What kind of objections do we got? Anything? I got a whole hour for you guys, so I got plenty of time here.
Nazar Kalayji [00:35:55]:
I love what you said about there’s ten objections, ten to twelve that you just need to learn. A lot of us, when we get into sales and just in general, we think that there’s just so many things that could be thrown at us and therefore we just get overwhelmed by it all. But if we spent just a little bit of time identifying those ten to twelve questions that we’re going to be getting on a regular basis and learning how to handle those, just like what’s his bucket says? What’s that guy Jones, BILL Jones, PHiL JONES There, you know, he’s like, you go prepared knowing those objections, you already handled them so you’re not caught off guard and you just get right into it. And that’s what I love about you, Tom, is that you’ve been able to do that and be able to really hone your skills in doing that. So does anybody have one more question?
Tom Tooele [00:36:44]:
Yeah, I have one for you. We’ve been role playing it in the office this week. We haven’t had a lot of it come up, but with the lawsuit and the buyer’s compensation, how are you guys training and how are you handling that objection in your office? We’re trying to get our agents prepared for that conversation.
Tom Toole [00:37:02]:
I’m really excited you brought that up, because if you’re not preparing for that, you’re not running the right kind of business. There’s going to be a couple of different ways this comes up, so you got to kind of listen. And when I said, listen carefully, this is really important. So, one is, hey, I heard about this on the news, right? That’s a little different than, I don’t want to pay a buyer agent as a seller or a buyer agent or a buyer saying, hey, I don’t want to have to pay you as a buyer agent. So there’s really three of them. This is in development right now. I’d love to tell you I’ve got this all figured out, but it’s not. I mean, I think you got to kind of develop.
Tom Toole [00:37:34]:
These things are. I’ll share this document with you right now. It’s something I’m working on. I think it’s pretty interesting. So the easy one, none of these are easy. The easier of them is, I heard about this on the. We. I can’t see your name where I’m standing.
Tom Toole [00:37:51]:
What’s your name? I’m sorry.
Tom Tooele [00:37:53]:
Tom Toole [00:37:54]:
Christina. That’s what I thought. Okay, so, Christina, why don’t we. Why don’t we role play this? Just lay it on me. Like, hey, I heard about this on the news, and then we’ll kind of get into it.
Tom Tooele [00:38:02]:
So, hey, Tom, I heard on the news this big lawsuit with real estate agents, sellers don’t need to pay the buyer’s agent.
Tom Toole [00:38:11]:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. There is a lawsuit. It was pretty monumental. And as soon as the ruling happened in Missouri, it literally went right to appeal. And we really don’t know. We don’t have a final ruling from the judge. That’s not going to happen until 2024. So what do you understand about the lawsuit and its impact on the market?
Tom Tooele [00:38:29]:
I just have heard from friends and stuff. The sellers were paying for somebody to negotiate against them and that it’s not fair that the seller is paying somebody that’s not on their side. I shouldn’t have to pay a buyer.
Tom Toole [00:38:45]:
Yeah, that’s definitely one of the arguments in the suit, which I find kind of funny because the attorney trying it is getting paid by the other side if he wins. So it’s the exact situation you just described. The good news here is that nothing has changed right now regarding the way that sales and purchase process works or how agents are earning their fee. And I bet you’re like me and you want to get a full understanding of any major transaction before you move ahead with it, right?
Tom Tooele [00:39:09]:
Tom Toole [00:39:10]:
So help me understand what’s important to you with making a move. What’s going to be important to you in terms of buying a new home and selling your current property?
Tom Tooele [00:39:19]:
Well, of course I want to make sure that I get the most money that I can because we’re moving at a time where rates are high and everything like that. So I’m going to need as much money as I can to make that move and I just don’t want to be taken advantage of. It sounds like in the news that sellers were potentially taken advantage of.
Tom Toole [00:39:36]:
Sure, I think that’s a really valid point. And what I know about the arguments in the lawsuit, and I’m not an attorney, by the way. Let me be very clear with you. In a lot of cases, buyers can’t really afford to pay their agent because they’re putting everything they can into getting financing, getting the down payment. And there’s a study out there from our local MLS that when homes are sold and they have both a listing agent and a buyer’s agent, they sell for 13% to 17% more than what they would get if they weren’t working with a buyer agent. This comes from Bright MLS. So I get your point. And you told me that you want to get the maximum amount of value out of your home.
Tom Toole [00:40:12]:
And what the data tells me one again, nothing’s changed with this lawsuit and it’s probably going to be in appeals for another three, five years. But secondly, having the entire realtor population working on your behalf to bring buyers through is going to help you get the best price and walk away with as much money as possible, which is what you want, right?
Tom Tooele [00:40:28]:
Yeah, of course.
Tom Toole [00:40:29]:
Awesome. It sounds like we’re on the same page there. And obviously if anything happens with that, there’s any changes, I’ll be the first one to let you know. We’ve been getting this question a lot. So has anyone taken the time to just sit down and show you how we can maximize the walk away money on your home, the proceeds check. And how we can make sure we get you into a new home you feel comfortable with?
Tom Tooele [00:40:50]:
No, I’ve only just done calculators like on Zillow or something.
Tom Toole [00:40:53]:
Perfect. Well, I mean, they’re a great place to, you know, what a lot of our clients have found is that before you get into the market, it’s really helpful to get an understanding of what you’re getting into, given how fast the market moves on the sell and the purchase side. So would you be open minded to a quick strategy meeting where we could just show you. Here’s our value as an agent. Number one, here’s how we’re going to market the property. Number two, here’s what we’re going to do differently on the purchase side. Number three, and that way you’re able to get a real understanding of how we can be your advocate here to make this an easy process and get you the best value for your been.
Tom Tooele [00:41:26]:
I’ve been Phil Jones. Sign me up.
Tom Toole [00:41:29]:
So, I just sent Nazar this script. This is something we actually. We’ve been developing it, but the idea behind it is, first of all, nothing has changed. Some agents are going down this rabbit hole and being like, well, if you pay the. You lost them at that point. Most people have no fucking idea. Let’s be very clear. They don’t know what goes on.
Tom Toole [00:41:47]:
This happened to me on Monday night at one of these appointments I was on. It happened on the very next day. I got it on a prospecting call I made. So this is going to come up. I read it on the news, is probably the most common. And so I sent Nazar that script. That’s one that we’ve gotten signed off, we’ve used. It’s in your text right now.
Tom Toole [00:42:03]:
The other two are a little more challenging. Right? I think you have to have a real conversation. I don’t know. The bizarre. I’ll let you and Rob know when I get this figured out because we’re working on it with a couple people in the ecosystem, like Brandon Howe, Tom, some other folks. I think you got to be really honest. And, I mean, hey, we don’t have to pay a buyer agent right now, and it could hurt our ability to get someone in here. And they might ask us for the fee anyway if they write up an offer.
Tom Toole [00:42:26]:
Or they might ask for more than we would have offered out, which is a possibility. So we’re controlling what we’re paying. But again, I want all the agents out there that are to sell the home because we don’t know where the buyer is going to come from and give them three options. You do all that stuff. This is the only one. I feel comfortable role playing with you guys right now, to be honest with you. We got to test the other two out a little bit because I think it is a moving tArget. But that’s the most common that we’ve seen, and nothing has changed.
Tom Toole [00:42:52]:
I mean, we don’t even know what the final ruling is in the court, so you can’t craft a script around that. No.
Rochelle Young [00:42:58]:
Tom Toole [00:43:03]:
Hope that helps.
Nazar Kalayji [00:43:05]:
All right. Any other questions? For Tom. Any other objections that you guys think that we want him to handle that you’re experiencing on a daily basis that you’re kind of stumped with?
Tom Tooele [00:43:17]:
I do have a question for you, Nazar and Tom. Is there a way that we could get Tom’s team to role play with your team every other week?
Tom Toole [00:43:28]:
So I’ll be very honest. It’s tough to get these people to role play more than what we’re mean, and I think the time zone is a little bit of an issue. In all seriousness, because we’re about 3 hours apart. However, I’m willing to try it and test it out, but if people start not showing up, then we’re probably going to bag it. Is that a fair agreement?
Tom Tooele [00:43:44]:
Fair enough. I know that we have a handful that would show up, so maybe after. See, I got hands raising. Maybe after Thanksgiving, we’ll connect and see if we can make it happen.
Tom Toole [00:43:56]:
I’ll work with the Nazar on that, and maybe we can do it. I like the idea of, like, maybe once a week or something. I think it can’t be too much, or it’s going to be hard to get people to do it every day. I’m not saying this to be a hater. This is just reality.
Nazar Kalayji [00:44:12]:
If you think about roleplay, if people just come not prepared, then I wouldn’t invite them to that role play. I would say, if you want to be part of this role play, then you can come up with the ten objections that you get and then have three or four responses to each one of those questions. Do that homework. And if you do that, then you’d qualify for that type of a role play.
Tom Tooele [00:44:32]:
We can work something out.
Nazar Kalayji [00:44:33]:
Just some type of a qualifier.
Tom Toole [00:44:36]:
What we normally do. We’ll send out a schedule the week in advance. This is all we’ve been working on is that specific objection. So that’s probably a great one to start with. After Thanksgiving is definitely when it’s going to have to happen, because, I mean, I’m already gone. I Can kind of feel it today, and it’s like, got a week? Christ, I’m here making calls.
Nazar Kalayji [00:44:56]:
When I was driving the other day, I had this epiphany of a really good analogy to be able to talk to people at the listing appointment. When it comes to talking about the importance of paying a buyer’s agent, I don’t know if you guys ever seen the movie John Wick or any of the John Wick movies. You haven’t? Okay, well, in the John Wick movies, these people put a hit on this guy that they want him dead. And so they have, like, this internal system where they say, hey, they call this operator, and they say, hey, I will give anybody that kills this man, I’ll give him a million bucks. And then, so they put a million bucks on there, and then people get a little ping on their phone saying, hey, million dollars. If you kill John Wick. And then they get really serious, like, okay, I’m upping that to 5 million. And then more people get that ping, like, okay, they stop what they’re doing and they try to go get John Wick and kill him.
Nazar Kalayji [00:45:51]:
The guy’s like, dude, I want this guy dead. Yesterday, I’m offering $30 million. Whatever that number was. It’s like this massive amount. And then everyone literally stopped what they’re doing and tried to go after this guy. And real estate is the same way. When you as a seller are at that table, you’re going to hire me to negotiate, market your property, and get your home sold. When you offer a commission to buyer’s agent, what you offer is basically putting a phone call out and a text message out to every single real estate agent that’s in our network that works around here, 30 miles radius, and letting them all know that you’ve got a home to sell and that they should bring all their buyers to the table.
Nazar Kalayji [00:46:30]:
At least in my head, that worked, and it made sense. But I don’t know, if you haven’t seen the movie, then it wouldn’t resonate with you.
Tom Toole [00:46:36]:
But I get it. I look at the personal injury attorney, right? Which is interesting because the guy who prosecuted this case is a personal injury attorney, and these commercials are on all the time. If you watch local sports, or at least in Philadelphia, where they’re like, hey, you don’t pay unless we. You know, this is a black and white mean. My hope is that the judge actually doesn’t have his head up his ass during these appeals, which is. Or her ass, whoever it is. I’m a little nervous because Nar obviously dropped the ball, but we got to be ready for this now. I would tell everyone the call, this is an opportunity.
Tom Toole [00:47:14]:
The people that are going to be forced out of the business are going to be like the hobbyists, like the ones that are the dabblers. This, to me, is no different than when people weren’t moving in 2008. It was a challenge then. I mean, I got engaged, like, the day before. All these companies failed. I’m like, great, I got to pay for a wedding now. And this is what’s going on in the housing market, we were through COVID. We were the most aggressively shut down state in the country.
Tom Toole [00:47:34]:
We couldn’t do anything for 60 days. So I know everyone’s a little worried about this, but if we train and do the stuff we’re doing now, you’re going to be fine, but you got to show your value. I mean, legal Zoom is out there, right? And people still hire attorneys. You can represent yourself in court, but people usually don’t do it. Think of the Fizbo. Right? What’s a turbotax? Right? I have an accountant I use. Thank God, because I got audited this year. If I was doing it myself, I would have been like, there’s a reason why people want a professional.
Tom Toole [00:48:03]:
So you got to show up like that every single day and treat every single day like a job interview. That’s been the mindset we’ve been preaching here, is that people are watching you all the time. So Nazar always busts my chops for dressing nice. There’s a reason I dress nice in the East coast, because people are watching. You don’t know who you’re going to meet, and you got to show up. Every day is an interview. So, not related to. Objection.
Tom Toole [00:48:21]:
Handling. But I think this is an important message to get out there for anyone that’s serious about their business.
Nazar Kalayji [00:48:26]:
Absolutely. All right, guys, well, thank you so much. And Tom, thank you so much for being on today. If you guys found value, please give them a little high five. And if you guys want to invite anybody else to this, it’s not broker specific. Like, anyone can join these calls. And so hopefully you guys can get value out of it. And then, of course, it’s created into a podcast and put on our podcast that you guys can find on Apple or whatever.
Tom Tooele [00:48:50]:
Hey, before you sign up, though, Tom, can you tell people where they can find you on Instagram? Because you provide so much value to know your East coast or West coast, it doesn’t matter. We get so much value from you.
Tom Toole [00:49:01]:
Awesome. Well, that means a lot, especially coming from someone like Nazar who has high standards in his company. And I mean that all serious. We bust each other’s chops a lot, but very grateful to be here. It’s Tom Tool third. If you guys got questions, shoot me a DM. I try to answer everything unless it gets filtered in one of those weird messages, but I’m pretty active on there, and we put out a lot of content, and, I mean, this stuff’s going to be coming. So we’re actually Nazar.
Tom Toole [00:49:24]:
I’ll send you the link for this. We’re running a training, we’re finalizing it now about navigating the lawsuit era and some of these scripts and different things. It’s kind of like a recruiting and agent training event, but we’re going to stream it as well. So I’ll get you the Zoom link in case you guys want to check it out because that script is going to be part of it, but also how to adjust your buyer presentation and some other stuff.
Nazar Kalayji [00:49:44]:
Cool. All right, awesome, Tom, thank you so much. You guys have an awesome Thursday, and we’ll catch you guys next week.
Tom Toole [00:49:50]:
ABOUT: We are a collective group of passionate individuals who have united to become greater than our individual selves. We know that through collaboration, we can achieve more, we can serve more and provide a level of service to our customers that can only be achieved by our unity.
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💰 Get more money in your pocket with a cloud-based brokerage.
🏆 Highest revenue share in the industry.
➕ Commission+ helps you develop your business.
🌿 Grow with us as a founding partner.
CURIOUS ABOUT FIV REALTY and want to learn more?
Schedule a call with us at https://calendly.com/fivrealtyco
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Want to learn from top nationwide real estate agents? Go to fivrealty.com/masterclass.
Fiv Realty: Together We Can Simply Achieve More!